Raising another man's children is the most humiliating and degrading> thing a man can do.

So the other night after work I went to a grocery that mostly catered> to immigrants. While I was shopping one of the ladies that worked> there struck up a pseudoconversation with me. She was just doing her> job but seemed she was waay friendlier than she needed to be. Later I> went to her checkout line and she talked at me and I tried to play it> off real good. I think maybe I screwed up. Her reaction changed. I> dont remember but I think I repeated myself or something. My brain> kind of twisted like it sometimes does when I am in that situation as> I am sure most of you people can relate to. The next night-Friday- I> went back and she was pushing carts in the parking lot and I said> hello to her. After I got my stuff, I went to her checkout and> suddenly she had a ring on her finger. Also some dude was standing> behind her. I paid for my stuff and left. I was disappointed because I> really got the idea that I had made a really good impression on her> and had myself all psyched up. Most of my issues spring from my own > internal dialog and lack of compitance in reading other people. It> seems like the only times I dont strike out is when I dont even try.

She had two children, and would compliment me all the time on how good I

it's just not going to happen and it's the stuff>of fiction.

Do I even have to get started on this one? _Grocery store clerks don't > like you_. They're just being friendly, and many of them are good at it. > When you try to take it out of the protocol of being a friendly customer, > you _are_ going to get the cold shoulder. This is a law of the universe, > people. It's like that thermodynamics stuff or the speed of light or > conservation of energy, it's just not going to happen and it's the stuff of > fiction.

I've observed first hand successful waitress pickups. Of course, that guy

standing behind her. I paid for my stuff and left. I was disappointed> because I really got the idea that I had made a really good impression on>

her and had myself all psyched up. Most of my issues spring from my own> internal dialog and lack of compitance in reading other people. It seems> like the only times I dont strike out is when I dont even try.>>

You do feel bad when this happens. Just when you think that maybe you're> getting somewhere, you realize that either you misinterpreted her> friendliness, or she played a game on you.>

I met some girl in church way back in my single days while in the army.> She and I would go out to dinner every now and then. She had two> children, and would compliment me all the time on how good I was with> them. (I was supposedly a second 'daddy' - not bad for a loved starved> single guy huh)>

Once or twice, there was some hand holding going on that she initiated.> And man did it feel good just having that because it seemed like it had> been forever since I had any female affection in my life. Although, inside> I knew a shoe would drop at some point. The whole relationship went on for> about a month or two (it's been awhile) and then 'hubby' showed up. He> must have been deployed somewhere and then came back. (She never mentioned> him, I never asked.) I did take time while visiting in her home to glance> around for clues - did she have a boyfriend or spouse? If she did have> someone, her home really didn't look like it. There weren't even any> pictures of anyone else besides the kids.>

Anyway, I went over there on a Saturday morning one time (the last time> actually) and thought I'd take everyone out to breakfast. So, the kids> answered the door and shouted 'Ron's here!' I hear her tell them to tell> me that she'll be ready in a minute - so I sit on the sofa with the kids> and watch cartoons with them.>

Not 2 minutes later the front door opens and some guy walks in - military> gear and all, and walks right by me and into the bedroom. Right away, I> know who this is, the husband. I watched the children's reaction to this> guy, I saw none. I interpreted this as that this guy is a regular in their> life, probably the father. While he might not be actually living there, he> comes and goes as he pleases - and she had been very good at keeping us> apart all this time. Its an easy thing to do when you know two people's> schedules.>

I then decide to leave because the whole ordeal left me feeling very> awkward. And honestly, even where I am now in life - looking back, I> probably would have done the same thing. Only I might have been more bold> by asking the children who this guy was. But, thats not what I did. I> simply removed myself from the situation. (Sometimes thats the best> choice.)>

So I left, and never heard from her again. I figured she'd call me if she> wondered where I went. However, I knew no call was coming. That visit was> unplanned, and she knew it.>

You know what I think? That this was a situation where she was maybe> unofficially separated from her husband, and that he was still> 'officially' in their life. She was probably lonely (like me) and I was> an easy 'vacation' from all that. I paid for everything when we were> together, in return, I had their company.>

In retrospect, I guess I was wrong too not asking her if she was married.> She was wrong for not mentioning it. I did learn from that experience -> which is a good thing.>

I will say, when you're lonely like I was, its very very easy to make> mistakes like that. Especially regarding communication. I think that what> happens is we see and hear what we want to see and hear because even an> illusion sometimes 'feels' good when you have nothing.>

Good post.>

I think it is as simple as a math formula which perhaps VirgoCluster> could elaborate upon. The chances of a successful pickup in a situation> such as checkout counter girl or waitress is directly in relation to the> man having a high rank and the woman having a lower one. For example, a 9> ranked man can easily pickup a 4 female but a 6 man and a 6 woman will not> work 99% of the time. What I'm getting at is that odd pickups WORK only> when the man is far better looking than the woman......if the equation> tends toward equal attractiveness the woman is not open for pickup...

There are people in this forum who remind me somewhat of this person I

... and showing weakness.

Its actually contrary to that - it takes a real man to come into a relationship where there is no father, and be a father to a child. Men who can do that have my respect.

A very good way to say things.>

You remind me of radio ad's I've heard for the National Fatherhood>Initiati­ve http://www.fatherho­od.org/ , "It Takes a Man to be a Dad".

In article <1134400770.588762.­42910 @ g44g2000cwa.googleg­roups.com> marasu <marasu @ earthlink.net> wrote:> >You remind me of radio ad's I've heard for the National Fatherhood Initiative http://www.fatherho­od.org/ , "It Takes a Man to be a Dad".

Bernd Jendrissek wrote:> > Please stop this... brainwashing. There is no extra nobility in> > seeking out harder circumstances than you need to accept.>

Fine -- then what makes it easier for a man to seek a single> non-mother if he already loves a single mother? Have some faith that> it could work.

Coats>

Again, one can be every bit a "man" without being a father.>

Coats

And me? No smokes. I made a comment about how I wanted one once. And then> decided that I am really no thaving fun with this cough and resetting> progress on that would suck.>

AND I would have to come here and report another busted quit. And that would> be no fun either.>

Stephanie

StephanieTheGoofy wrote:> > DH an dI had some wine. We sat on the porch and talked. (Porch! Red

WTG Steph!>

You know ... repetition is the only way to really 'de-program' wine and> bootie on the front porch as a trigger.>

Cheers!!>

--Marvie>

And me? No smokes. I made a comment about how I wanted one once. And then> decided that I am really no thaving fun with this cough and resetting> progress on that would suck.>

AND I would have to come here and report another busted quit. And that > would> be no fun either.>

Stephanie>