This is a great thread. I look forward to seeing other responses, > especially from those who don't live in the U.S. My responses are rather > Americentric.

Here is a long list of CF people, past and present:>

http://www.childfr­eebychoice.com/histo­ry.htm >

-- >Caine

"Marije" <marije.feddema@kin­dervrij.org> wrote in > news:1102652361.444­165.189310@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com:­>

Katharine Hepburn (never had nor wanted kids. Not the earliest CF pop-> culture celeb - that might be Mae West or W.C. Fields - but perhaps a > pioneer because of her long-lasting popularity. Think how many times > she's been mentioned here and on other CF sites)>

"Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood)"> And a racist eugenicist.

Actually, W.C. Fields was not childfree. He was married Harriet Hughes > in 1900, and were never divorced.>

In 1904, W.C. Fields, Jr. was born in Philadelphia--and a severe rift > developed in the marriage. Hattie refused to raise W.C. Jr. on the road, > while Fields wanted his family in tow. Fields lost the argument and the > couple soon separated. They nevertheless remained married until Fields' > death in 1946. (Fields Jr. was raised entirely by Hattie, but at least > to his credit Fields Sr. was not a deadbeat--he never failed for the > rest of his life to send a comfortable stipend to Hattie and child > support money for W.C. Jr.)

"Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood)"> And a racist eugenicist.

Thank you for the corrections. I should have done my homework before> proclaiming Fields to be CF.>

Would he still fit in the category of "CF pioneer" for making a lack

affection for kids seem acceptable (in a curmudgeonly way) in the

hear them." Consider, for example, that the Our Gang/Little Rascals

I dunno that I'd give him a pass-- seems like the purity of not> breeding to begin with needs to be upheld. Otherwise, we'd have to put> all of Victorian England on the list.

Many of the people on my list are not childfree themselves, but they

important to the history of childfreedom.

That's not to say that W.C.> Fields is a major contributor, just a pop-cultural note.

A group I forgot when compiling my list is the National Organization

Non-Parents, which existed from 1972-1982. In 1978, they changed

How big was it? My rough impression, given the number of decidely CF> but non-self-defining-a­s-CF (I mean, people who don't have and never> had any intention of having kids but who still wouldn't consider> themselves a part of a trend or movement or anything-- they still call> themselves "childless" despite fitting the criteria of "don't want 'em,> don't have 'em") whom I know IRL, my impression in general is that CF> aren't likely to walk arm in arm down the Mall in Washington DC as part> of a movement, and are hardly likely to join the National Organization> of Non-Parents Everywhere (NOPE) or anything else.> Just thinking out loud here.

A casual Google search does not tell me how large the organization

to 420 randomly selected members of the group.>

The following article credits the organization with the invention of

term "childfree":>

http://www.africa20­00.com/RNDX/chapter0­37.html>

That seems pretty significant.

Whether large groups of CF people are likely to join such an

history.

Curiosity, mostly. And the ability to move off on a tangent at a> moment's notice. And the image of a million CF, arm-in-arm from Capitol> to the Washington Monument.> A girl can dream, can't she?

"Marije" <marije.feddema@kin­dervrij.org> wrote in > news:1102652361.444­165.189310@f14g2000c­wb.googlegroups.com:­>

I'd rather go further back and look at those who helped "childfree" be a > valid life choice for us now, even if not all these people were > themselves childfree:>

Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood)>

Charlotte Perkins Gilman (author of "The Yellow Wallpaper," which > explored the mind-bending drudgery of motherhood and post-partum > psychosis pretty clearly, more than 100 years ago)>

Charlotte Perkins Gilman may not belong on your list, although she was> a pioneer in so many ways. Here are some excerpts from her novel> "Herland," a feminist utopian novel that put motherhood as the> pinnacle of women's achievements.>

(The context is that a group of men have stumbled on an all-female> society and are questioning the women there)

***************>

яя"You surely do not think that any of us," he said it with a good> deal of emphasis on the "us," "would hurt your young girls?">

яяя"Oh no," she said quickly, in real surprise. "The danger is quite> the other way. They might hurt you. If, by any accident, you did harm> any one of us, you would have to face a million mothers."

**Delurk**>

Charlotte Perkins Gilman may not belong on your list, although she was> a pioneer in so many ways. Here are some excerpts from her novel> "Herland," a feminist utopian novel that put motherhood as the> pinnacle of women's achievements.>

(The context is that a group of men have stumbled on an all-female> society and are questioning the women there)>

***************>

"You surely do not think that any of us," he said it with a good> deal of emphasis on the "us," "would hurt your young girls?">

"Oh no," she said quickly, in real surprise. "The danger is quite> the other way. They might hurt you. If, by any accident, you did harm> any one of us, you would have to face a million mothers.">

**********>

"The children in this country are the one center and focus of all> our thoughts. Every step of our advance is always considered in its> effect on them -- on the race. You see, we are Mothers," she repeated,> as if in that she had said it all.>

***********>

There you have it. You see, they were Mothers, not in our sense of> helpless involuntary fecundity, forced to fill and overfill the land,> every land, and then see their children suffer, sin, and die, fighting> horribly with one another; but in the sense of Conscious Makers of> People. Mother-love with them was not a brute passion, a mere> "instinct," a wholly personal feeling; it was -- a religion.>

*********>

"But what I do not understand, naturally, is how you prevent it. I> gathered that each woman had five. You have no tyrannical husbands to> hold in check -- and you surely do not destroy the unborn -- ">

The look of ghastly horror she gave me I shall never forget. She> started from her chair, pale, her eyes blazing.>

"Destroy the unborn -- !" she said in a hard whisper. "Do men do> that in your country?">

***********>

Here's a link to the text of Herland.>

http://etext.lib.vi­rginia.edu/toc/moden­g/public/GilHerl.htm­l>

**re-lurk**

Here's some people to add to your list:>

Elaine Burkette -- I can't believe you left her off!

Sharon Case, actress Y&R, has stated that she doesn't want kids> Anna Stuart, actress "Another World", also stated that she never> wanted kids> Stephanie Powers, actress, final companion of William Holden> Jill St. John, actress, marred twice, no kids

And with Diane Sawyer with no kids, I can't believe how she badgered > George Clooney about not having kids on the O12 Primetime Live> special.

Thanks so much for so many replies. I couldn't respond earlier as I> hadn't found a way how to access the beta version of the Google groups> at home (it doesn't default to that like it does at work, for some> reason) and in the older version not all the messages show up.>

Margaret Sanger I have included (I forgot to mention her on my list). I> tend to agree with MFS that there are no 100% good people. I don't> agree with all of the old feminist ideas too, but feminism was of> influence to the later childfree movement, no matter how you look at> it. MFS, thanks for listing the other people and groups as well, I'll> go and investigate them.>

I've had a look at the Childfree by Choice list quickly too. It's a> very long list, so it'll take me a while to go through. There were a> lot of people on it that I don't know though (perhaps because of my> non-American background).>

"Thank you for the corrections. I should have done my homework before> proclaiming Fields to be CF.>

Would he still fit in the category of "CF pioneer" for making a lack of> affection for kids seem acceptable (in a curmudgeonly way) in the> popular> culture? He was famous at a time when the tide was turning away from> "children should be seen and not heard" and moving toward "aren't they> precious and cute, and everyone within the tri-county area must see and> hear them." Consider, for example, that the Our Gang/Little Rascals> movies> were out around the same time as Fields' movies.">

That sounds interesting enough. I'll see if I can find out a bit more> about him and include him in my book.>

Jeri Jo Thomas. I'll have a look at the ones you listed too, especially> Elinor Burkett.>

How about other writers of CF books? Would they somehow fit on the list> of pioneers too or is there something special about Elinor that makes> her a CF pioneer?>

Also, would anyone consider Melissa McPherson (founder of the former> ChildFree Association) to be a CF pioneer? I know she used to be part> of this group (I read older messages of her, but she seemed to have> vanished suddenly).>

By the way, my co-writer and I have decided to donate part or all of> the revenue made from the book to charity, which include the World> Childfree Association of course (to further promote childfreedom), but> also the RSPCA (animal protection) in Australia (because most of the> childfree are animal lovers, including myself). The book is currently> being written in Dutch, but if a publisher is interested in giving it> out in English too, I might decide to translate it and internationalise> it a bit (at the moment it is very much focused on childfreedom in the> Netherlands).>

Regards,> Marije>

Ugh. You're right. I also see that feminism as uterism is hardly a new > concept. >

We'll strike Ms. Gilman from the list, interesting a read though she is. > It seems she didn't understand that women should have the choice to not > be mothers. I guess she didn't learn from her experiences that led to > "The Yellow Wallpaper."

Or maybe she did, but figured the lesson was "we should get> compensation for being forced to do this" instead of "we shouldn't be> forced to do this in the first place"?>

I'm reminded of that thread on soc.feminism a couple of years ago on > whether American women today need to be compensated for the burdens of> motherhood...

Omixochitl <omixochitl2002@yah­oo.com> wrote in> news:Xns95BE545E576­ABidtoken@130.133.1.­4: >

Back in Charlotte Perkins Gilman's day, when not being a mother wasn't> an option for most fertile women, compensation for motherhood would> have been a fair idea. Nowadays, I wouldn't support it, because women> have the option to just not do it. >

The exception would be in lesser-developed countries where birth> control is not easy to get and societal attitudes are still prejudiced> against the childless woman, but most of those countries treat women> so poorly that compensating them for motherhood would never be> considered. The woman's only use is to provide children, so why pay> her for it? (and yet prostitutes can still get paid in those> countries...tells you how much children are really valued, when> producing them is worth nothing but producing an available orifice> warrants a bit of cash)

Hmm...if someone gets more food and shelter from her husband/father-in->­ -law/whomever's in charge if she bears heirs than if she doesn't, does > that count as her earning a living (in some barter manner) bearing heirs?

MFS <ack.20.teletard@sp­amgourmet.com> wrote in> news:Xns95BE52EE32E­01mfswheee@130.133.1­.4: >

Hmm...if someone gets more food and shelter from her> husband/father-in- -law/whomever's in charge if she bears heirs than> if she doesn't, does that count as her earning a living (in some> barter manner) bearing heirs?

Hmm...if someone gets more food and shelter from her husband/father-in->­ -law/whomever's in charge if she bears heirs than if she doesn't, does > that count as her earning a living (in some barter manner) bearing heirs?>

I'm sure I'm missing a lot, so could you please add more names to my> list, preferably also with a brief description their contribution to> the childfree cause.

MFS <ack.20.teletard@sp­amgourmet.com> wrote in >news:Xns95BD5FFD2A­FC9mfswheee@130.133.­1.4:>

Or maybe she did, but figured the lesson was "we should get compensation >for being forced to do this" instead of "we shouldn't be forced to do this >in the first place"?>

I'm reminded of that thread on soc.feminism a couple of years ago on >whether American women today need to be compensated for the burdens of >motherhood...

Omixochitl <omixochitl2002@yah­oo.com> wrote in> news:Xns95BEE1D585B­BAidtoken@130.133.1.­4: >

Being, as my ER doctor friend calls it "a bag for having babies"?

Just remember the fate of those poor babybags who bear the "wrong"> gender of heir.

sq, "Currently trying to help raise some funds for battered women who> spawned females"

Pretty much. Doesn't it suck when a woman has no opportunity to do, or > even learn, any safer job or profession?

Yup - that's why I specified "bears heirs" instead of "bears sons who > will inherit stuff and/or daughters who won't."

Sounds like a cool fundraiser!